To reiterate (in case I sounded a bit harsh or dismissive), the OP's question was this:
'Why does God ,as viewed by theists, allow animals to suffer?'.
The God of theists is personal, present and active. If he cared about animals, then he would not have left them to experience severe pain and painful deaths throughout their already pitifully short lives, regardless of whether you believe in evolution or Gods direct influence on their design throughout all 'creation'.
He either made animals in a way that causes them to suffer and inflict suffering on other creatures that were designed to experience it, or He allowed them to evolve and fight to the death in many horrific and pain-filled ways. He does not care about them and is responsible for unimaginable animal suffering.
What a callous God that is. Who would worship it?
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
Saved Jw..
Revelation 21:4
New International Version
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
Even the God you believe in supposedly thinks that suffering is something that needs to be done away with.
I can see where you are going with this, though.
"But DOT, if you don't believe in a God, where do you get the standard for what is evil"?
Well, not only is the question of suffering being evil or not off topic, and not even slightly relevant to why God allows animals to suffer.. but it would also seem to be suggesting that atheists may as well just kill and maim anything they come across as they please, if they can get away with it, as without an external set of morals nobody can decide what is good or bad.
Please feel free to take your philosophies to this thread..
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175688/1/God-Morals-and-Atheists#.U68Gdl2t-o8
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Also, here's a good quote from a great thread:
Terry posted 6 years ago(5/13/2008)
Post6353of15843
Joined6/19/2004
"Nothing mysterious about morals.
Morals are the most practical behavior possible.
Morals stem from the fact we cannot succeed for long in society if we harm others or lie to them.
It is disadvantageous in the long run to kill, lie, cheat and otherwise harm your friends, family, social contacts and "shit where you eat."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/158287/1/Where-do-atheists-morals-come-from#.U68Gyl2t-o8 -
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There will NEVER be another World Power. The end is near.
by defender of truth in"grace.
san francisco bay area.
posted 22 march 2013 - 08:14 pm.
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defender of truth
“ 'I think the dollar gets hammered. I believe we are headed for hyperinflation.' If Saudi Arabia stopped selling oil only in U.S. dollars, Sinclair says gasoline would be '$10 a gallon very soon, without a doubt.'
Sinclair predicts retirement funds and bank deposits are going to be taken by the government. How much of your money could you lose? Sinclair says, 'In Cyprus, it was a total of 83%. . . . Cypress is the blueprint, and it’s what we are going to experience here in the United States.'
http://usawatchdog.c...ati on-and-more/
Good thing we know from Daniel that this is impossible - otherwise living in America could be really scary. As sure as God's word is true - (The US/ UK) will be the last world power and NO OTHER - we can trust the US will not become some form of Banana Republic."
"I am glad we use a better technique by pointing to the solution FREE - rather than trying to sell or scare others into buying."
"There is Satan's challenge. Trying to prove Jehovah a liar as he has tried for centuries. Shift things in this world to make it look like Jehovah's word will not go fulfilled or that it can't be fulfilled. Is Satan interested in the fact that the last kingdom is a dual world power and that its rulership will be the one standing when Jehovah brings destruction? Absolutely! Is it in his interest to try and break that rulership up (the dual power relationship) and/or bring in another rulership so that Jehovah's word goes unfulfilled or at least it looks like he can't fulfill prophecy?"
"So when it comes to the scene of this world, we are not surprised if world events look like they are steering away from the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. For example, Japan in the '80's looked like they were going to take over - economically - as world power. Yet it wasn't Jehovah's time. Therefore Japan didn't take over. Was there divine intervention involved in this? Who's to know? Over the years it looked like the dual-world power - US and UK - had waned and that it was only the US in control while the UK was one of their allies and not to much more than that. Then 911 happened and BAM!! - there was no doubt as to the relationship of those two: like two peas in a pod."
http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/8119-china-to-overtake-america-by-2016/page-6
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"It is always interesting to see Bible prophecy play out, like:
Babylon NEVER inhabited and US/UK LAST world power. Every time someone gets close - like Japan 20 years ago - something happens. Fascinating."
"The Anglo-American dual power has alot of influence in world affairs. They:are located:
1. Wall Street - If the presidant can eject billions of dollars by a phone call and save the world from economic collapse, then they can minipulate world affairs. They did it in 2008.
2. White House - Decisions in the oval office and phone calls to their allies to use propaganda. Propaganda and action that taken by it spreads.
3. Pentagan.
4. NATO - Basically Anglo-American dual power is NATO."
"I believe that China has some muscle and want to be stronger than Anglo-American power. However, their ideas or custums has not spread around the world like the Anglo-American power has and that is why they will have a major influence or be a force when the end comes."
http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/8119-china-to-overtake-america-by-2016/page-7#entry226110 -
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There will NEVER be another World Power. The end is near.
by defender of truth in"grace.
san francisco bay area.
posted 22 march 2013 - 08:14 pm.
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defender of truth
"Grace
San Francisco Bay Area
Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:14 PM
There will never be a new world power. The Anglo-American world power is the LAST one that is to exist before this system is destroyed."
http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/8119-china-to-overtake-america-by-2016/#
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"Does a dose of speculation and sharing scenarios......prevent us from also preaching to the maximum degree....I mean, we can walk and chew gum at the same time, can't we...."
"I remember at last year's DC that is was specifically stated that we ARE NOT waiting for another WORLD power to emerge. It was said the the Anglo-American power is the 8th and FINAL King."
http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/8119-china-to-overtake-america-by-2016/page-2
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"Great article about the "reserve currency " and why the $US as the reserve isn't and really can NOT go away - in the foreseeable future.
http://armstrongecon...serve -currency/
Edit - aside from the Biblical reason of - if it did the US would collapse and no longer be the World Power it is and Daniel 2 would prove untrue (which as we know can't happen either)."
"So this dual power status is still there. It may have gone to sleep for awhile through the decades, but it is alive, well and kicking. When this system ends, no one will be able to say that the 7th world power wasn't a dual world power but a single world power."
http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/8119-china-to-overtake-america-by-2016/page-5 -
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Breaking News : Planning application for new British Bethel to be submitted within 2 weeks
by raymond frantz inapplication for new british headquarters to be submitted within 2 weeks.
the boys from bethel have been busy planning their new luxurius residence in chelmsford ,essex .the deal to purchuase the new land was in the region of 10million all financed from struggling jehovah's witnesses across the country .please read the news article and let me know what you think.. .
instead of building in chelmsford how about building in a less affluent area "where the need is great", like cumbernauld in north larnakshire.
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defender of truth
"retroHelen
However, after that May article appeared in the newspaper, I did not put it on this site because of the discouraging negativity of follow up emails. and letter writing 'trolls' shown after the article, commenting on it and spreading slander about our organisation and tried to make out we would be a worrying secretive extremist cult that the local government would regret allowing on the land. Others pointed out that the land had originally been set aside for local employment prospects not for a 'cult'. Others tried to claim that the land was 'greenfield' site and should not be disturbed - despite the mess the scrap/junkyard had caused. This was worrying/stirring up other secularists /humanists/atheists. The newspaper seemed to be picking up on this controversy rather than the favourable reports they'd first heard."
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"Greg Dent
13 Jun 2014
So why hi light that in your post? Why give them a voice here? Ignore that garbage for what it is my Friend Garbage. Jehovah will take care of them for us. He will shut all their mouths forever."
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"sunshine
26 Jun 2014
Our history shows that any projects will happen if that is Jehovah's will. If it falls through, it's because Jehovah doesn't see fit to let HQ Britain be there because he has something better in view, if it works out, it will work out despite the whole world rising up against it."
http://jwtalk.net/forums/topic/15522-britains-jw-branch-building-could-fall-through-without-support/#entry225832 -
754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
"Animal suffering seems at odds with the Christian idea of a loving and powerful God.
After all, if God was all-powerful he could prevent suffering, and if God was perfectly good he would want to prevent suffering.
But animals do suffer on a colossal scale, and as there doesn't seem to be any logical necessity for them to do so Christians have some explaining to do."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/christianethics/animals_1.shtml#section_4 -
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defender of truth
The Watchtower did sort of allow for the possibility that the Big Bang could have started the universe, in an Awake in 2002, I suppose after 'wordly' research and discovery had refined the theory.
"The Limits of Science
It is fitting to have proper respect for scientific knowledge and achievements. However, many will agree that while science involves a way of knowing, it is not the only source of knowledge. The purpose of science is to describe phenomena in the natural world and to assist in answering how these phenomena occur.Science provides us with insights into the physical universe, meaning everything that is observable. But no matter how far scientific investigation goes, it can never answer the question of purpose—why the universe exists in the first place. “There are some questions that scientists can never answer,” remarks author Tom Utley. “It may be that the Big Bang happened 12 billion years ago. But why did it happen? . . . How did the particles get there in the first place? What was there before?” Utley concludes: “It seems . . . clearer than ever that science will never satisfy the human hunger for answers.”
g02 6/8 pp. 4-7
How Did the Universe and Life Originate? -
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defender of truth
Phenomenon
2c: a fact or event of scientific interest susceptible to scientific description and explanation
3a: a rare or significant fact or event
http://i.word.com/idictionary/phenomenon -
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defender of truth
Phizzy said: "Belief is trusting that something is true without evidence."
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belief
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence.
http://i.word.com/idictionary/belief -
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defender of truth
"This pruning of sources suggests an argument concocted from the Watch Tower. It's fraudulent. With your moniker you should be ashamed of yourself."
I'm no apologist, matey, I just wanted to start a discussion on reasons to believe the Big Bang theory. I used the wording 'believe in' to stir people up a bit, that's all.
Sorry if the OP was unclear, all of those first quotes come from the '96 Awake, then the final one is Awake as well.
Of course it's misleading, that is why I posted it directly after the article on reasons to trust the Big Bang theory.
Thanks for the interesting contributions everyone :)